Digital Eve LA - Lainie Siegel speaks with Erica Oh

It used to be said that most fine artists were doomed to a subsistence life, but the new media explosion of the 1990s blew away that age-old “truism” in just half a decade. For proof, look no further than Lainie Siegel, creative director and co-founder of Interactive Jungle, an interactive design agency. A fine arts graduate of Long Beach State, Lainie’s career skyrocketed with the explosion of the Web. Over the last seven years, Lainie took on increasingly key creative roles in some of the most prominent, groundbreaking - and notorious - entertainment sites on the Web. In February, she and a creative partner took the big leap to entrepreneurship, and are already enjoying some top-shelf clients. Lainie shares her thoughts on her current projects, creativity, and her amazing journey through the Internet high-life.

You’ve been overseeing the creative aspects of large-scale Web sites for seven years. How did you spend the time between when you graduated from art school and when the Web broke? Did you work for big agencies or were you more of a fine artist?

I was a fine artist. I actually only got involved with the Web as a fluke. I was working as an artist assistant, I was doing all sorts of stuff including waiting on tables. Basically after almost ten years of doing that, I was waitressing next door to this brand new startup called Boxtop, and they were dealing with something really strange called the Internet. At the time, I had never turned on a computer in my life, but my Boxtop customers were telling me about [the Web] and I was getting very excited.

At the time Boxtop had about 12-15 employees. I talked my way into an interview, and I actually created a position for myself as the first unpaid intern. I basically learned on the job. I did that for three months, and after that I was offered a full-time job as a production artist. From there I worked my way up to designer, then to senior designer, and then to art director.

At this point I should back up and say that I really came from a place of conceptual art. I was always really interested in the process. It’s truly the core of everything we do. None of it is about decoration, it’s about concept, it’s about a strong foundation. It’s creativity first, and we apply that through the design and programming. We don’t just make something that is pretty and hope that we can program it, it’s really about the core.

How would you describe your visual style, and who or what are your biggest influences?

My visual style is not something that duplicates somebody else. It’s inspired by everything around me, by life. I get extremely inspired by what other artists are doing on the Web, on canvas, on video, on film — and what people are doing in life. To me that’s inspiration.

I suppose when I first started I was more focused on styles of design because I was never formally trained as a designer. I knew the fundamentals of color theory and composition, but I never learned design in an academic way. So I sort of had to learn by observing. But creativity doesn’t happen by duplicating, creativity happens by inspiration.

Once I’ve got the entire creative story worked out for a project, when I sit down to work on the creative visuals, it’s only one small element of the overall design. I just let it happen. Sometimes I just move things around, sometimes I start from an old design and take elements out, and start thinking about where we’re going with this concept. Sometimes I start with color and see what happens. I never have an intention when I start, so the design happens, it’s not me that’s designing. It’s really not about me. Because I did work my way up through the ranks in this industry, I learned really quick to separate my ego from my design.

When you’re doing fine art, you’re doing fine art for yourself. Fine art is really about exploring yourself through the power of creativity. Design is really about exploring a concept and finding a visual solution, so you’re separating your ego.

Doing what I’m doing now as a company, I’ve hooked up with a very dear friend as my partner, and he and I really established the creative foundation. He is a writer, he is a creative genius, we bounce off each other and we have a flow. We met back at the Boxtop days. We don’t challenge each other in our own disciplines, we complement each other. And when we sit down to create anything for a client, we do a creative brainstorming — and it’s usually over a couple of glasses of wine — and we really get into the brand as a concept. It’s really the brand that drives the design. So even if the brand is not established — which is what we prefer by the way — we can come up with an identity and translate the idea into the writing, the design, the feel… these are only extensions of the brand.

One of the reasons why we decided to start our own firm was because [my partner] Michael and I worked for a large companies that had such stringent methodologies, and we found more often than not that the creative process got lost. So our only choice was to create decorative things (designs) to put on top of what already existed. [Wanting to start our own firm] didn’t have to do with the ownernship, it had to do with the creative process. If you’re creating something decorative (unless that’s the intention), it’s not really from the creative core. So when we started Interactive Jungle, what we observed was that the methodology at all those big firms was really watering down the process. We got away from that.

One of the projects we just launched is the “3rd Rock From The Sun” site. It’s a well-known brand and they [Carsey-Werner-Mandabach] needed a redo of the current site that served the fan core. So we had a specific creative challenge, and by the way all creativity and design really deals with problems and solutions. So we assessed who are we creating for, what is the core brand, what do we want to say. We did a lot of brainstorming and we came up wtih something that would be absolutely, totally engaging. We came up with a fan site that had all the core components like past episodes, cast and show info. The brainstorming included the architecture, the functionality, the design and the programming.

We came up with a look and feel that accentuated the show without duplicating it. And we came up with the creative for a game, not exactly a game but we called it the Journey. It’s a journey that runs for a 30-day period featuring trivia, factoids gallery images that is competely database driven. You choose a character and move forward down a linear path, however the path is different for every person.

In terms of the entire package, and the creative concept and the identity, we really branded this as something very different from the show. Its own online identity complements the show.

Since 1996 you’ve designed sites for some of the highest-profile names in entertainment. Many creatives don’t have what it takes to manage a team, a large project, or a budget. What skills do you have that enable you to handle these projects so successfully?

It’s interesting, you know my background starts from the bottom and works its way up so in terms of dealing with creatives, I know how I like to be spoken to and I know how I like to be managed. So it’s taking those lessons and applying them to my management skills.

In terms of dealing with clients, it’s really odd, my partner and I have talked about this, most creatives don’t really manage that well but I’ve found that I have some sort of niche for doing that. I’m good at listening and I’m good at managing client expectations, and I’m good at communicating, and I’m good at laying out what their responsibilities are. Generally we do hire a project manager, because we know it’s important. However when we first bid on a project and sell the project, Michael and I are the ones who go in and sell it, so we’re doing a lot of everything.

I noticed you did a site for Marilyn Manson a few years ago. You mention in your portfolio that you worked closely with him on it. What was that like?

It was really great. I had to sort of push aside all my preconceived notions of who I thought he was and listen to him and see what he really had to say. He turned out to be a very creative, articulate man. What I presented to him were concepts that dealt with his album that had just come out, and how it would translate to an interactive experience. When we finally pushed forward and created the site for him, it was amazing, it was pretty great. Because I wasn’t dealing with Marilyn Manson the persona, I was dealing with Brian whatever-his-name-was. It was pretty much like one artist speaking to another artist; there was a great amount of respect. And that was his first Web site.

I want to ask you about DEN. The company got a lot of flack after its high-profile flameout. As a former insider, do you think all the criticism is fair? Or are there some good things about what DEN was doing that have been overlooked?

If you’re talking about how much money they lost, can’t you say that about every Web venture at his point?

I can tell you working for DEN was an amazing experience. I learned a lot. There were some shitty days but also some great accomplishments. I can also tell you managing a team of 35 artists, I was not designing, that was the only bad thing about it. On the other hand, I was in on the site architecture, I was in on every creative aspect of the company at a management level. It was an amazing experience for me personally.

At the time when I was hired I was five months pregnant, and I made great money. So I probably have a very different perspective than a lot of people. I thought it was a great company to work for, and I loved the fact that it was notoroious and I loved the fact that it was groundbreaking. We did things that other companies wished they did or dreamt they did. There were a lot of politics but I wouldn’t trade those days for anything.

OK, tell me about the birth of Interactive Jungle. When and how did your company get started?

It officially started in March of this year. I was laid off from my job [when we ran out of funding]. I had the ideal job, I couldn’t have been happier. I left DEN three months before they folded, and I started working for a company called Spongelab. Spongelab was an e-learning company that dealt with the arts. So it was like melding all my interests into one. Plus I was getting paid great money. For me it was amazing.

So I went from that job to thinking OK, I’ve been in original content programming for three years, do I want to go back to client services… to technology… what do I want to do with my career? I was really at a dead end and the industry was taking a dive and quite a few of my peers were out of work at the time. One of my close friends, Michael, and I decided to open our own company.

I know that’s really simplistic, but… we had long and hard conversations about what we liked to do, and we realized that client services could be really challenging again in a good way, because suddenly we realized that the large firm methodologies were not our obstacles anymore. We could create our own “methodology”, we could get back to creativity for creativity’s sake, vs. time and hours and budget. We started bidding on jobs as a team in February and we started doing our own brand identity and launched our site in March. And actually our version 2.0 is launching in January. How exciting!!

Since then we’ve really resonated as a company, we really established our voice and we know that it’s not a one-person effort, it’s a team effort. When we started Interactive Jungle, we really saw it as a design firm focused on interactive, but we also do identity / branding and print work. We also have an amazing technology team. We’ve got two guys, one guy’s a front-end guy who’s amazing with HTML, DHTML, XML, Flash, you name it, then the backend guy is a database extraodinaire. Their solution has always been ‘you dream it, we’ll figure out how to make it.’ So there have never been any obstacles, technology-wise.

The interntion is to keep it as a small company and one of the benefits is that you get close client interaction and you don’t have to deal with the big-firm red tape. Our prices are amazing, we’re great to work with, and we deliver on time as promised.

What project is nearest and dearest to you right now?

Oy! [laughter] Well, we’re working on a project right now that’s going to launch in the beginning of January, it’s called the Insight Group. We’ve been in negotiations with them since August and we finally kicked off the project with them a month ago. They checked out some of the top firms in San Francisco and LA and they ended up going with us because they liked our portfolio, they liked our personality, and they liked our price. They had no brand identity, they had no logo. They only had an idea about what they were. They go to four-star hotels and they sit down and rate things … they’re really against the word “secret shopper” — they’re really classy, on the Ian Schrager level.

To me, the reason why this project is so dear is because they are so willing to take a risk and trust us with their identity. They thought they were one thing, and when we started developing their brand, they realized they were much more bleeding edge and much more… they can communicate their brand through more progressive design than they thought. So what we’re doing for them is pretty amazing. We did a couple of traditional comps of what they thought they wanted, and couple of far-out artist comps that you would find in a painting. And we presented to them and they sat with them for four or five days, and they chose the number-one far-est out concept! It was a shot in the dark but they went for it, so we’re developing their site for high bandwidth, and we’re using pretty amazing technology, bleeding-edge design, really sharp. In terms of money it’s kind of less than, a far cry from what we earned for 3rd Rock, but it was for ourselves. And I do need to add that I recently have turned down a creative director position at another firm that scouted me because I believe so strongly in what we are doing. The risks are far more rewarding than earning a lot of money at a place where my creativity is stifled.

The site I thought was the most touching in your portfolio was the one you built for the birth of your son. How do you find the time to do this?

I don’t know! I never updated it after one year so that tells you a little about my time! My son Miro, however is my inspiration to make Interactive Jungle work!

For my last question, I’d like you to look to the future. Where you do hope to be in five years with your business and your career?

Same place.

You sound like you’re in a good place right now.

I am in a good place right now. Financially, the company will be earning more, but in time. I know if we keep doing what we’re doing, the money will be greater.

Probably the last thing I want to say is, anytime you’re building a business my advice is to surround yourself with folks who do what you don’t do, whose strengths are your weaknesses. Separate what you do from your ego, and surround yourself with talented people, and come from a place of creativity and heart and you will never fail. I mean it’s failproof, you can’t fail!

Erica Oh is Chapter Leader for DigitalEve Los Angeles